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Tuesday, January 5, 2010

What can Charlie V. tell us about Danny G?


So I’m going through my usual morning repertoire today, emailing out a couple guys in the league for trade feelers. You know, send the first email with a line like ‘Hey what’s up bro, looks like I have this league locked up already! Can’t believe Paz (another manager in my league) snagged Bosh in that last deal, what’d you think of it?’. Then he replies, we chat, and two or three emails down the road I drop in ‘You looking to make any more trades? Selling anyone or looking to add a particular stat line?’. Gotta know where he stands. But anyway, one of the guys boasts how psyched he is Danny Granger is due back soon. That excitement prompted me to give my opinion on the Danny G situation, using Charlie V to explain.

Charlie Villanueva injured his foot December 18th against the Thunder and has battled Plantar Fasciitis since. In the preseason of this year, many of us had Charlie V. pretty high on the draft board, somewhere in the top 75. Some even had him higher than that, factoring in his breakout potential and the opportunity to take over as lead man in Detroit. Early in the season this looked like a great call and Charlie paid huge dividends. Then came the injury, and then came the scoring drought. Since the injury December 18th, Charlie V has topped out at 10 points in a game.



This is what you can expect from a player with Plantar. Here’s the deal, it’s a sharp throbbing pain in your heel. The more you run on it, the more it hurts. In basketball, this leads to a player moving a little slower, and importantly, cutting to the hoop or driving the lane less and pulling up for jumpers or taking spot jumpers more. Two things here: first, those are much tougher shots to hit, and second, the defender knows this is the case and thus guards you tighter. He’s not really concerned about you blowing past him and driving the lane. So now you’re taking tougher shots with a hand in your face. Since the injury, Charlie V’s FG percentage is BELOW 20%.

Here’s another guy for you, Andres Nocioni. Back in the 2006 – 2007 season, Nocioni also battled plantar fasciitis. I know it’s hard to believe, but he was actually a pretty darned good fantasy player prior to the injury. In fact, in the 05-06 playoffs Noc was averaging about 20 points and 10 boards. After the injury he became largely ineffective and relegated to fantasy basketball wasteland. He missed a third of the 06 season, then had some start and stops in 07, then relapsed and missed more time in 2008.

Oh, one more thing, neither Nocioni nor Charlie V had the same severity of injury as Danny G, which required surgery.

Could Danny Granger come back and be a superstar again immediately? Yup, anything is possible. Please, re-read that, I’m telling you anything is possible. Am I going to bet any part of my current fantasy season on that? Nope, why risk it? Look if you’re sitting in last place right now, and feeling totally desperate, I can see you making the move to get Danny on the cheap. But if you’re like me, sitting anywhere within striking distance of the leader, trading away a reliable player for Danny is a huge potentially season ending risk to take.

On the flip side, if you’re holding Granger and sitting at the bottom of your league, I totally understand hanging onto him. It’s like sitting on a lottery ticket, who knows you just might win. But if you’re at the top or within striking distance of the top and someone comes along offering you a Carlos Boozer or Gerald Wallace or Antawn Jamison or heck even Kevin Martin, I don’t see why you wouldn’t remove the risk you have with Granger and take something a little more sure back in return.

That’s right, I said Kevin Martin. Totally different scenario there. Kevin Martin shattered his wrist and has to get surgery to fix it. Why am I confident Martin will come back and be effective? Because the night AFTER he shattered his wrist, he was back on the floor and dropped 25 points in the game. Yeah, something tells me it didn’t affect his stroke too much. Again, could he come back and be ineffective? Sure, anything is possible. But in my estimation of risk and reward, I’m banking that Danny G is a higher risk than Kevin Martin by a landslide and that the reward is pretty even.

Let someone else hold the lottery ticket. So long as you play your cards right, work that 2-1 deal, you’re going to get value in return for Granger (especially with him close to returning) and it’s not going to matter how well he does or doesn’t do. It’s someone else’s problem and you’re locked in for the top slot.

33 comments:

mcguirknba said...

So you think it is time to drop Charlie V and pick up somebody usefull?

philv said...

Thief, if I am looking to deal Granger, is it better to deal him to a team practically out of the run or someone on top of the league. I guess my fear is that if I deal him to someone on top of the league and he does play well then I just handed him the trophy. What's your thoughts?

J. said...

I'm in the same boat McG. I have Charlie V on my bench and I'm debating on whether to drop him or not. The guys im looking at on the waiver are A.Randolph, Bibby, Ray Felt and Barbosa. I do need help with my threes but I can't ever see Bibby or Barbosa making my lineup. Even in the utility spot. What to do, what to do?

Any thoughts Thief? I posted this question to you a few days ago and I believe you said go with Bibby for the threes. In that case I would probably just keep CV because my assists are just fine. Should I drop Charlie V for the big ? that is Anthony Randolph?

Starting lineup:
DWill
Wade
Rondo
G.Wallace
Brand
B.Lopez
Al Jefferson
Caron Butler
Ben Gordon
Jason Richardson

Bench- Garnett, Lou Williams, Charlie V.

mcguirknba said...

I would pick up felton for Charlie, he has been pretty solid since jackson arrived.

J. said...

O/U for starting lineup:

PTS: 0.344 RPG: -0.049 APG: 0.070 SPG: 0.309
3PG: -0.500 BPG: -0.001

Thief said...

Yeah, We've given Charlie time, but it looks like he's really hurting. Sux that his trade value is nada. If i have a choice between him, Felton, bibby and leandro, I take the other 3 in that order.

Phil, bottom dwellers always pay the higher price. I'd def target one of them.

J. said...

No Anthony Randolph huh? lol

philv said...

Whats your gut feeling on Gilbert Thief?!?!

Some are saying a season suspension is comming his way, any thoughts or how I can trade him away?

Thief said...

Alas, so much potential, such a fantasy superstar in waiting. But at 20 mpg, he's just a headache right now. That's what I like about bibby, he gets the minutes and is bound to get better.

J. said...

I hear ya. I drafted AR this year only to drop him about a month and a half into the season. I wish Nelly would give this kid the minutes he needs. Just grabbed up Felton for Charlie V. Although I didn't necessarily need them the added assists and steals should be nice for padding the CATS!

woozy said...

how about dropping charlie v for mike miller? with arenas' gun charges and butler on the trading block, you think miller will start producing again?

Tao said...

Thief, I found another player on wire, Mike Dunleavy, what do you think of him, compared to courtney lee, CDR?

Bakuman said...

Heya thief! About selling high on Jennings and Ariza post, both are in my team. Who do you think I can cash in for those two or other of my players with either of those two?

My team:
Rondo
Jennings
Brooks
Duhon
Ariza
Casspi
Marion
Landry
Aldridge
Bosh
Bogut
D. Lee
M. Gasol

Over/Under Scores:
FG%: 0.151
FT%: -0.303
PPG: 0.117
RPG: 0.245
APG: -0.012
SPG: 0.010
TO's: -0.078
3PG: -0.362
BPG: -0.096
ORPG: 0.313
DRPG: 0.068

Thanks Thief! Wonderful calculator!

Tao said...

Thief, Jason Richardson is having a hard time in recent 10 games. Do you think it's a good time to steal him? Is he still good as "building blocks" as you mentioned before?

nherndon said...

agree with your comments on granger for the most part, however it is important to note that he dealt with this last year and missed 11 games in mid february-mid. march and came back to average nearly 30 points, over 5 boards, over a steal and a block and three threes for the final 15 games, he is a special player and alot tougher than charlie v.if you stole him for a third rounder or above recently you could be reaping some serious benefits.thanks for all the great advice and tools, this website is fantastic!!!!!!

nherndon said...

rookie seasons.anyone know who these two are , one is happening right now
46% .5 77% 5.5 4.9 3 1.5 .5 20.1
42% .8 75% 5.5 5.9 3.5 1.7 .7 20.9

just saying, if you're in a keeper league.......
what do you think thief?? where does tyreke rank in a keeper? I know martin will bring down his stats a little but maybe it will help his assists...???

LuCkY_3 said...

side A: dwight, shard, peja

side B: amare, mo, wilson chandler

who wins? its not my trade, but i wanted to see wat u thought of it.

Bakuman said...

Another question. Anyone can give their opinions.

Is Bosh and Rondo for Paul giving up too much or Bosh and Jennings should do the trick?

sennett0r said...

OK, I've subscribed via Google reader and I thought I'd get the posts sent to my email but I don't. I figured, no big deal since I saw the password for the sauce calculator last week on Google reader.

I go through my google reader today and see your latest post, and I can't see the password!

Help me out Thief!

Christomir said...

@nherndon

LOL, I surrender - can't figure out who the second one was. So who was it?

And, yeah, Tyreke will be great. I'm trying to sell high on him right now, scared of Martin's impact on his usage, but if were in a keeper league, I would definitely keep him!

Thief said...

Tao, I can't say much about any of the three I do like lee's steals, that's about it.

Woozy, I think miller shouldn't be on any fa wires, ESP in deeper leagues.

Baku, try workin ariza for j-rich and Jennings for jameer.

Nhern, Great Stats on Granger, tho this time he had to get surgery. I agree high risk high reward, but I don't like playin for risk if I don't have to. With reke it's just too early to tell. Need to see both Martin n Garcia on the floor with him.

Lucky, it's pretty even, but I'd say B cause of Mo Williams. But really, VERY even

Henzo said...

hey thief, a manager offered me westbrook and jianlian for bogut and eric gordon. I'm gonna try and counteroffer and give him bogut, eric gordon, and danny granger for westbrook and g.wallace. What do ya think?

woozy said...

well, i just dropped TT for miller. i already do well in blocks and rebs but need help in 3pt's

danshaff said...

Hey thief i think i may have worked out a melo deal ill keep you posted later now my other team needs some drastic help and i know you are the man to go to so heres my team:
roy,brandon
gordon,eric
wallace,gerald
smith,josh
gasol,pau
ariza,trevor
chandler,wilson
gordon,ben
brooks,aaron
garnett,kevin
nelson,jameer
jennings,brandon
smith,j.r.
im waiting on artest off the wire for jr
here are my over unders:
-0.237
-0.101
0.155
-0.206
-0.351
0.029
4.524
0.056
-0.105
-0.396
-0.266
not very good at all. This guy wants josh smith and asked me to make an offer. heres his team:
Steve Nash
Matt Barnes
Jason Kidd
Kevin Durant
Yi Jianlian
David West
Joakim Noah
Andrea Bargnani
Louis Williams
O.J. Mayo
Stephen Curry
Troy Murphy
Andrei Kirilenko
So thief what do i do??

Thief said...

Senn, working on a better way to do this. It's frustrating for me too. Sorry. Do u get the comments?

Henzo, I think take Gordon out of the deal. He'll still bite. Maybe swap in a bench player to keep it a 3-2.

Dan, whoa, good thing the doctor is in! Send him over Smith, Ariza and Chandler for David West, Jason Kidd and Joakim Noah. See if he bites.

sennett0r said...

I get nothing emailed to me. I get both posts and comments on google reader though.

Dipset said...

thinking about sendin paul and j rich for deron and wade
what u think

team:
chris paul, devin harris. calderon, nate rob
jason richardson, oj mayo
rudy gay josh smith rashard lewis
brook lopez andrea barnagni joakim noah luis scola

sauce:

threes .91
points 15.67
bounds 5.97
dimes 3.62
steals 1.09
blocks .8

danshaff said...

Hey thief he turned down the josh smith w chandler and ariza for kidd noah and west, now what? he didnt counter

nherndon said...

cristomir-
second one is Lebron

Thief said...

Senn, you good now?

nHern, I ran a sell high on Tyreke a bit back, I titled the post 'How to Value a Rookie'. I did the same thing cept I compared him to Durant and Rose. Durant's numbers are very similar. My argument was, no matter how you cut it, Reke has topped out for the year (he ain't gonna be better than LBJ). That all said, he's def a top keeper.

sennett0r said...

GOOD! THANKS A LOT!

I'll let you know whats up with my sauce and stuff after I input my league info and all that good stuff!

still in last place.. 19 games behind the leader.. You think I have a chance? Almost half my players are injured...

sennett0r said...

Alrite, here's my deal...
I have
broy
jkidd
kevin martin
pgasol
a bynum
a bargnani
paul pierce
lamarcus aldridge
rudy gay
tony parker
michael redd
jose calderon
mike miller

my Over/under
fg% .079
ft% .409
pts .201
reb -.204
ast -.019
stl -.234
to -.299
3s .024
blks -.190

So, out of my team right now, kevin martin, p gasol, paul pierce, jose calderon, mike miller, lamarcus aldridge, and michael redd are all either injured or battling/coming back from injuries.

I picked up mike miller and jose calderon within the past day or two.

I'm in dead last out of 8 teams with those 9 categories.

Do I have a chance?

I was going to maybe give up on rebounds and blocks and try to dominate every other category, except for Turnovers maybe...

What do you think?

Christomir said...

@nherndon

Yeah, in fact I just figured it out myself and was just going to post here something like "Aah, I got it - it was LeBron"...LOL

It should have been much quicker solving that riddle, since Reke reminded me of LeBron with his play since the very first games of his I watched... Heh. But Thief is right - he's not gonna get better than that (even though he just went for 27-11-7 with an ankle injury tonight :O). And, true, he is definitely not gonna have a better rookie season than LeBron.

As a proud owner myself, my best hope (if I don't manage to sell high) is that he will not lose too much scoring and rebounds after Kevin Martin returns and he is shifted completely to the point guard spot... One thing is for sure - he will not GAIN any.